Pepper chats
with
DJ Perry
with
DJ Perry
On Friday, November 7th, 2003, I had the privilege to enter the Comstock Inn and be greeted by Tony
Hornus. Followed by an introduction to TJ Jernigan and DJ Perry. One of the things that I learned
about DJ is that he can be a little bit of a trickster. That is okay because I am known as one myself. I
think that is what broke the ice for me, and DJ and I were to become friends from the turning of tables.
Little did I know, at that time, that I was to have the privilege to become the Webmaster for DJ Perry. As
time went by, friends of mine became fans of DJ's and had a few questions that they wanted me to ask.
Here goes and I sincerely thank DJ Perry just for being his wonderful gracious self...
Hornus. Followed by an introduction to TJ Jernigan and DJ Perry. One of the things that I learned
about DJ is that he can be a little bit of a trickster. That is okay because I am known as one myself. I
think that is what broke the ice for me, and DJ and I were to become friends from the turning of tables.
Little did I know, at that time, that I was to have the privilege to become the Webmaster for DJ Perry. As
time went by, friends of mine became fans of DJ's and had a few questions that they wanted me to ask.
Here goes and I sincerely thank DJ Perry just for being his wonderful gracious self...
DJ: Yes. Actually my first film, "One of Us", is a drama filmed at MSU almost 12 years old now. "In the
Woods" was my first starring role 10 years ago. I had a friend that just saw "Judges", go out and rent "In the
Woods." It has great camera work done by Kevin Hewitt. The script and monsters were shaky and my acting
was immature. They are suppose to release a special edition of "In the Woods" that has a funny commentary
with Lynn Drzick (Writer, Producer, Director) and myself. "Outlaw Prophet" the now Troma film has to be
the worst movie I've been in. Aimee, my female lead in "In the Woods" was working in the film and they
wanted to cast her boyfriend. I was actually going for the bad guy but I got the boyfriend role. I did get to do
some stunts and that was really fun. Nashville was a BLAST and we had so much fun making this bad movie. I
also met Rebecca Holden who went on to have roles in "Knight Chills" and "From Venus". She was best
known as the red haired beauty on "KNIGHT RIDER". "The Nest" is a strong movie with a powerful message
and "The Flock", a 60's spy flick, is really smooth. Those two Lionheart Filmworks projects set the stage for
the bigger projects to come. www.indieflix.com has become a great outlet to own our early films, "From
Venus", "Heaven's Neighbors", "Figure in the Forest", "Making of an Independent Epic: Wicked Spring".
We just had "The Nest" go up for sale and now "The Flock" and "Mystic Motel" will be coming later in the
year. I encourage you all to watch the evolution and buy these films. $9.95 for features and $2.95 for shorts.
Great deal! I actually just bought 5 copies of "The Nest" for family gifts.
Woods" was my first starring role 10 years ago. I had a friend that just saw "Judges", go out and rent "In the
Woods." It has great camera work done by Kevin Hewitt. The script and monsters were shaky and my acting
was immature. They are suppose to release a special edition of "In the Woods" that has a funny commentary
with Lynn Drzick (Writer, Producer, Director) and myself. "Outlaw Prophet" the now Troma film has to be
the worst movie I've been in. Aimee, my female lead in "In the Woods" was working in the film and they
wanted to cast her boyfriend. I was actually going for the bad guy but I got the boyfriend role. I did get to do
some stunts and that was really fun. Nashville was a BLAST and we had so much fun making this bad movie. I
also met Rebecca Holden who went on to have roles in "Knight Chills" and "From Venus". She was best
known as the red haired beauty on "KNIGHT RIDER". "The Nest" is a strong movie with a powerful message
and "The Flock", a 60's spy flick, is really smooth. Those two Lionheart Filmworks projects set the stage for
the bigger projects to come. www.indieflix.com has become a great outlet to own our early films, "From
Venus", "Heaven's Neighbors", "Figure in the Forest", "Making of an Independent Epic: Wicked Spring".
We just had "The Nest" go up for sale and now "The Flock" and "Mystic Motel" will be coming later in the
year. I encourage you all to watch the evolution and buy these films. $9.95 for features and $2.95 for shorts.
Great deal! I actually just bought 5 copies of "The Nest" for family gifts.
Pepper: In each of these movies did you get to do your own stunts and was there any training for them?
DJ: I actually have a large background in the martial arts that I've never displayed on camera. I have had to
"unlearn" for certain fight scenes like the end of "Wicked Spring". I was proud of that fight scene and it
was truely more REAL than acting. I'm told I'm a pretty good METHOD ACTOR. There is a funny bit
about that on the "Wicked Spring" making of... you'll have to watch and see. I've rolled out of cars in "From
Venus" and jumped through windows while being consumed by a fireball in "In the Woods"... Table crashes
and flips in "Outlaw Prophet". Stunts like the fireball burst and car roll require more of a talk through but in
the end you just have to DO IT! "The 8th Plague" is a very physically active film with a LOT of action and
BLOOD! We hope to have that out by the end of the year. "G.P.S." had some fight scenes in it also but,
nothing crazy. There are some crazy stunts in that film BUT, I didn't have to do them because my character
wasn't involved in those scenes. One takes place on cliffs over a HUGE waterfall in Seattle, WA.
"unlearn" for certain fight scenes like the end of "Wicked Spring". I was proud of that fight scene and it
was truely more REAL than acting. I'm told I'm a pretty good METHOD ACTOR. There is a funny bit
about that on the "Wicked Spring" making of... you'll have to watch and see. I've rolled out of cars in "From
Venus" and jumped through windows while being consumed by a fireball in "In the Woods"... Table crashes
and flips in "Outlaw Prophet". Stunts like the fireball burst and car roll require more of a talk through but in
the end you just have to DO IT! "The 8th Plague" is a very physically active film with a LOT of action and
BLOOD! We hope to have that out by the end of the year. "G.P.S." had some fight scenes in it also but,
nothing crazy. There are some crazy stunts in that film BUT, I didn't have to do them because my character
wasn't involved in those scenes. One takes place on cliffs over a HUGE waterfall in Seattle, WA.
Pepper: Out of the four movies that I have first mentioned, which were your favorite
to work in?
to work in?
DJ: "The Nest" was cool but a pain in the ass to shoot. COLD, WINDY and a SNOW BLIZZARD! "The
Flock" was fun as well but I was only a small cameo actor, so it was cool as a producer but not as fun as an
actor. Nashville was a BLAST so "Outlaw Prophet" was fun when we were NOT shooting. Shooting was
kind of slow and... HEY I appreciated the work at the time but, I appreciated more that you could take a
bottle of Jack Daniels and a 6 pack and give them to the front desk at the local strip club and they would
bring it to your table on ice. "In the Woods" was my favorite. Jim, Aimee, Stu, Buck and the rest of the
cast members along with the crew like Don, Lynn, Bob, Adam (my brother),Lisa (Now Lynn's wife), the
caterers, just everyone involved that made my 1st starring role AWESOME! The town of Kalamazoo was
BUZZING with our shoot and we would always get stopped at breakfast or out on the town. Add in all the
little fun moments over that month shoot and hands down "In the Woods" was my favorite shoot of those
four to work in.
Flock" was fun as well but I was only a small cameo actor, so it was cool as a producer but not as fun as an
actor. Nashville was a BLAST so "Outlaw Prophet" was fun when we were NOT shooting. Shooting was
kind of slow and... HEY I appreciated the work at the time but, I appreciated more that you could take a
bottle of Jack Daniels and a 6 pack and give them to the front desk at the local strip club and they would
bring it to your table on ice. "In the Woods" was my favorite. Jim, Aimee, Stu, Buck and the rest of the
cast members along with the crew like Don, Lynn, Bob, Adam (my brother),Lisa (Now Lynn's wife), the
caterers, just everyone involved that made my 1st starring role AWESOME! The town of Kalamazoo was
BUZZING with our shoot and we would always get stopped at breakfast or out on the town. Add in all the
little fun moments over that month shoot and hands down "In the Woods" was my favorite shoot of those
four to work in.
Pepper: Which had the most action to it?
DJ: It would have to be either "In the Woods" or "The Nest". They all have action but, "The Nest" had a
HUGE 50mm gun firing and a shitload of explosions. "In the Woods" had a BIG EXPLOSION and some
attacks... I think readers should buy/rent all 4 and make their own decision. I would have to say, if pushed,
"The Nest". It did win BEST ACTION SHORT in New York at the film festival there. Kevin Hershberger
is a good action director and Bill Bishop really brought the heat to films like "The Nest", "From Venus",
"Wicked Spring" and "Judges". Uncle Bill brings the BOOM! Dan Leys and Mirage Technologies did a
great job with "In The Woods" though, as well.
HUGE 50mm gun firing and a shitload of explosions. "In the Woods" had a BIG EXPLOSION and some
attacks... I think readers should buy/rent all 4 and make their own decision. I would have to say, if pushed,
"The Nest". It did win BEST ACTION SHORT in New York at the film festival there. Kevin Hershberger
is a good action director and Bill Bishop really brought the heat to films like "The Nest", "From Venus",
"Wicked Spring" and "Judges". Uncle Bill brings the BOOM! Dan Leys and Mirage Technologies did a
great job with "In The Woods" though, as well.
Pepper: Which one do you consider to be the silliest?
DJ: "Outlaw Prophet" is the silliest film. "In the Woods" is close behind. We thought that we could make
a horror film where the monsters attack in the daylight. There is a reason why you don't show those
monsters in the daylight! THEY LOOK FAKE! Some of the shots worked but, what the daylight didn't
ruin, the bad dialogue did. I've seen a few comments on that last scene with my wife in the hospital and I
laugh as well. It was bad but... HEY it is a movie. Devil Dogs and Dinosaur like creatures... people please...
and it was ten years ago and they are still selling. I guess that is what matters. Silly or not, David
Heavener and Lynn Drzick got your dollar and admit it. You know, you got a good laugh somewhere in
the movie and maybe even a startle or a scare.
a horror film where the monsters attack in the daylight. There is a reason why you don't show those
monsters in the daylight! THEY LOOK FAKE! Some of the shots worked but, what the daylight didn't
ruin, the bad dialogue did. I've seen a few comments on that last scene with my wife in the hospital and I
laugh as well. It was bad but... HEY it is a movie. Devil Dogs and Dinosaur like creatures... people please...
and it was ten years ago and they are still selling. I guess that is what matters. Silly or not, David
Heavener and Lynn Drzick got your dollar and admit it. You know, you got a good laugh somewhere in
the movie and maybe even a startle or a scare.
Pepper: When you did the movie "Knight Chills", what possessed you to pick a
subject like the RPG?
subject like the RPG?
DJ: I've played Advanced Dungeon & Dragons for as long as I can remember. All my friends did and we
had a blast. My partner in CDI, Jeff Kennedy, had written for a few of the companies and ran stuff at the
GenCons they have. We wanted to write about something we knew and there was a huge interest in those
games and only MAZES & MONSTERS and E.T. even mentioned it. It was a $20,000 movie and we
wanted to do so much but we were constrained by a VERY tight budget. Blood & Gore horror fans hate it
because it is PG-13 with little blood and no naked boobies! "The 8th Plague" will make up for both those
things and I hope my horror fans will then forgive me.
had a blast. My partner in CDI, Jeff Kennedy, had written for a few of the companies and ran stuff at the
GenCons they have. We wanted to write about something we knew and there was a huge interest in those
games and only MAZES & MONSTERS and E.T. even mentioned it. It was a $20,000 movie and we
wanted to do so much but we were constrained by a VERY tight budget. Blood & Gore horror fans hate it
because it is PG-13 with little blood and no naked boobies! "The 8th Plague" will make up for both those
things and I hope my horror fans will then forgive me.
Pepper: There is one scene early in the film that I particularly liked. It is where you recite
this poem and the professor called it "The Burn-Outs Pledge of Allegiance"... Can you, by
chance, remember it and say it for us?
this poem and the professor called it "The Burn-Outs Pledge of Allegiance"... Can you, by
chance, remember it and say it for us?
DJ: No problemo! "We are the burn outs proud and true, we grow our own weed and we smoke it too.
I know one day that we'll all die but, when we do... we'll all go HIGH!" That was written on the
bathroom wall at Sexton High School. We use to collect cool sayings from walls and such and that was
a favorite of ours.
I know one day that we'll all die but, when we do... we'll all go HIGH!" That was written on the
bathroom wall at Sexton High School. We use to collect cool sayings from walls and such and that was
a favorite of ours.
Pepper: After we are led to believe that John is killed in the blazing car, was it difficult for you to
play half scared out of your wits?
play half scared out of your wits?
DJ: I just tried to show an individual who's sanity was slipping. That final rant by the Xmas tree was done
at like, 4:30am, after shooting all night. I wouldn't say it was difficult just to act scared; it was just a
difficult shoot. We always try to shoot everything all together. Work 6 days and 1 day off and 6 days and 1
day off... so it can be very exhausting. That probably actually helped with those scared/crazed scenes.
at like, 4:30am, after shooting all night. I wouldn't say it was difficult just to act scared; it was just a
difficult shoot. We always try to shoot everything all together. Work 6 days and 1 day off and 6 days and 1
day off... so it can be very exhausting. That probably actually helped with those scared/crazed scenes.
Pepper: We really did not see what happened to Zac in the end as the Knight of the Rose came to take
the boy away... Is there a possibility that we just might see a new "Knight Chills"?
the boy away... Is there a possibility that we just might see a new "Knight Chills"?
DJ: You know, we almost launched it a few times and we have 2-3 other story lines but the truth is that
people are moving away from the table games and more towards WAR CRAFT and computer games with
people joined by the internet. I know they did some horror film based on that but, I didn't see it and don't
know much about it. I would never say NEVER though.
people are moving away from the table games and more towards WAR CRAFT and computer games with
people joined by the internet. I know they did some horror film based on that but, I didn't see it and don't
know much about it. I would never say NEVER though.
Pepper: You, Tony and Jeff spent many hours and months on getting the movie "An Ordinary Killer" made
let alone released. On the DVD "Beyond Ordinary", I noticed that you were sitting in the court room
where the actual verdict was passed down... Were you there at that very moment?
let alone released. On the DVD "Beyond Ordinary", I noticed that you were sitting in the court room
where the actual verdict was passed down... Were you there at that very moment?
DJ: Yes. I was right to the camera's left. I think Michael Anderson was our camera
operator, if I'm not mistaken. The man had these shark eyes and we caught him in that
scary wink back to someone in the room. Crazy true stuff!
operator, if I'm not mistaken. The man had these shark eyes and we caught him in that
scary wink back to someone in the room. Crazy true stuff!
Pepper: How did it make you and Tony feel to know what the
verdict actually was?
verdict actually was?
Pepper: Did you get to watch the detective that you
portrayed at work?
portrayed at work?
DJ: We were not there for the verdict, we were there for the sentencing. I'm sorry,
you confused me.
you confused me.
DJ: It was a combination of a few detectives and most of them from the 1970's are
retired or dead. I did get to talk with some of the detectives and read everything from
the day she was missing until the day of the sentencing.
retired or dead. I did get to talk with some of the detectives and read everything from
the day she was missing until the day of the sentencing.
DJ: He seemed to try and act helpless at times with the twiddling of his thumbs and
looking around confused. BUT, when you see that head turn, smirk and wink, you knew
you were dealing with someone much deeper and deliberate.
looking around confused. BUT, when you see that head turn, smirk and wink, you knew
you were dealing with someone much deeper and deliberate.
Pepper: Did you get the chance to get any coaching from your real life
character or did you just run with the way the script was written?
character or did you just run with the way the script was written?
DJ: I just took from the script and added a few personality traits here and there. I considered
the State Trooper Academy at one time so, I got to explore some other versions of myself. Does
that make sense? I hope so.
the State Trooper Academy at one time so, I got to explore some other versions of myself. Does
that make sense? I hope so.
Pepper: I watched "Wicked Spring" with great expectations and was not
disappointed. The movie rocked back and forth between the war and the
families there were in peaceful towns before the men actually went to war. Was
it very hard for you to do a true reenactment from the peaceful husband and
father to become a gun toting soldier who had to kill another human being?
disappointed. The movie rocked back and forth between the war and the
families there were in peaceful towns before the men actually went to war. Was
it very hard for you to do a true reenactment from the peaceful husband and
father to become a gun toting soldier who had to kill another human being?
DJ: No. Soldiers are men seeking to restore peace by force if needed. Sure there may be some war dogs
or war pigs or whatever that thrive on war but, for the common soldier he is fighting to make the world a
better place. In "Wicked Spring", John Sunderland was fighting to make a better world for his children to
grow up in.
or war pigs or whatever that thrive on war but, for the common soldier he is fighting to make the world a
better place. In "Wicked Spring", John Sunderland was fighting to make a better world for his children to
grow up in.
Pepper: Most of us consider the campfire scenes to have been some of the best part
of the movie. Spending the entire night to read letters that a Confederate Soldier's
wife had written him had to have been an unusual act for those times. How did you
come up with the idea?
of the movie. Spending the entire night to read letters that a Confederate Soldier's
wife had written him had to have been an unusual act for those times. How did you
come up with the idea?
DJ: I think it probably happened and more often then we think. Imagine after a
horrific day of battle when it all goes quiet. The woods are filled with men who are
exhausted and wish they were home in bed with family around them. Instead, they
are surrounded by darkness and death and the fear of what tomorrow may bring or
steal from them.
horrific day of battle when it all goes quiet. The woods are filled with men who are
exhausted and wish they were home in bed with family around them. Instead, they
are surrounded by darkness and death and the fear of what tomorrow may bring or
steal from them.
Pepper: You can tell the Colonel for me that we were not happy with the ending, although it was unexpected.
I don't want to give it all away for those who have not seen the movie as of yet.
I don't want to give it all away for those who have not seen the movie as of yet.
DJ: I will pass on your thoughts to the Colonel Holden played by Anthony Hornus.
Pepper: I noticed that in quite a few of the movies, you had to be geared
up with special FX to make it look like you were really hurt, did it kind of
worry you in your earlier films to be wired up for small charges?
up with special FX to make it look like you were really hurt, did it kind of
worry you in your earlier films to be wired up for small charges?
DJ: Yes. Anytime you have a small explosive wired to you... in "Judges" it was just
above my knee but, close to the family jewels so, when you hear EFFECTS HOT!
You respect that:
above my knee but, close to the family jewels so, when you hear EFFECTS HOT!
You respect that:
Pepper: Were you ever slightly hurt when any of the charges went off?
DJ: I had a fire ball in my pants that burnt my Buddy Colt underware in "Judges".
They score the pants with a cut so that it will blow through but, these must have
been TOUGHSKINS or something. Nothing damaged though, so everything was
cool. Anthony Hornus slipped on "Wicked Spring" and had part of his beard burnt
off from a blast. He fell face first towards a flash pot.
They score the pants with a cut so that it will blow through but, these must have
been TOUGHSKINS or something. Nothing damaged though, so everything was
cool. Anthony Hornus slipped on "Wicked Spring" and had part of his beard burnt
off from a blast. He fell face first towards a flash pot.
Pepper: Did it ever bother you to be looking down the barrel of another gun?
DJ: No. I guess I trust my FX guys and they now clear guns
in front of you. That probably started after the whole
CROW deal, with Brandon Lee.
in front of you. That probably started after the whole
CROW deal, with Brandon Lee.
Pepper: Getting to "Judges", it seems that it is receiving a lot of attention since it is
a modern day version of the biblical book "Judges". Were you able to connect the
two versions or did you just run with the modern script?
a modern day version of the biblical book "Judges". Were you able to connect the
two versions or did you just run with the modern script?
DJ: It just has undertones from "Judges" that a
person can pick out but, it is much more of a tribute
to the old Sergio Leone films. I love the cars that
add a "MAD MAX" element to it all. I'm pushing for
a lot more car stunt action in the sequel now in
development.
person can pick out but, it is much more of a tribute
to the old Sergio Leone films. I love the cars that
add a "MAD MAX" element to it all. I'm pushing for
a lot more car stunt action in the sequel now in
development.
Pepper: Was that really you driving the gorgeous Mustang or did they make you sit
still to allow a double to be behind the wheel?
still to allow a double to be behind the wheel?
DJ: That was me rodding the shit out of that car. I got to do several takes and one time
pushing the limits of speed and turning I almost planted the car into a wall... but I didn't!
Why? Because I'm Buddy Colt!
pushing the limits of speed and turning I almost planted the car into a wall... but I didn't!
Why? Because I'm Buddy Colt!
Pepper: I know that it would be hard to do but, do you think that you just might be able to
make "Judges II" sometime in the future?
make "Judges II" sometime in the future?
DJ: The sales figures have been strong enough that a sequel has
already been given a greenlight to shoot by Anthem Pictures.
Walker (Director) and I have been hashing about story lines.
Father Kane (Russ Stine) and Iron Joe (Sean Doherty) are
attached to return and the other info released is that it will be
shooting in New Orleans in 2007.
already been given a greenlight to shoot by Anthem Pictures.
Walker (Director) and I have been hashing about story lines.
Father Kane (Russ Stine) and Iron Joe (Sean Doherty) are
attached to return and the other info released is that it will be
shooting in New Orleans in 2007.
Pepper: You made "GPS" long before you finished "Judges" and "Miracle at Sage Creek".
Will we be able to see it any time soon?
Will we be able to see it any time soon?
DJ: "GPS" was done shortly after "Judges" and had one
re-shoot early in 2006. It is close to being done. "The 8th
Plague" is almost done and we might see it this fall. "Miracle at
Sage Creek" hits video stores on May 30th, 2006. They are
actually having their L.A. premiere tonight with a lot of stars in
attendance but, I'm editing on SUPERMODEL SHOWDOWN
this weekend so, I will be missing it.
re-shoot early in 2006. It is close to being done. "The 8th
Plague" is almost done and we might see it this fall. "Miracle at
Sage Creek" hits video stores on May 30th, 2006. They are
actually having their L.A. premiere tonight with a lot of stars in
attendance but, I'm editing on SUPERMODEL SHOWDOWN
this weekend so, I will be missing it.
Pepper: The making of "Miracle at Sage Creek" had to have been a dream come true for you
because you were side by side with your Kung Fu mentor. How was it for you the first time
you got to shake David Carradine's hand?
because you were side by side with your Kung Fu mentor. How was it for you the first time
you got to shake David Carradine's hand?
DJ: I would not credit David with being a mentor
just someone that I admired because of his TV
show. It was a good feeling to meet David the
first time. He is a very unique person and he was
full of good stories. I've been meeting and
working with many people I admire and that is a
good feeling.
just someone that I admired because of his TV
show. It was a good feeling to meet David the
first time. He is a very unique person and he was
full of good stories. I've been meeting and
working with many people I admire and that is a
good feeling.
Pepper: You had a wonderful support system there as you worked on "Miracle at Sage Creek"...
Tony Hornus and a couple others from CDI... Did that help keep your head out of the clouds and
your mind on the matter at hand?
Tony Hornus and a couple others from CDI... Did that help keep your head out of the clouds and
your mind on the matter at hand?
DJ: That head in the cloud stuff is for the fans.
All these people are talented but they also are
JUST PEOPLE! They do laundry, they drink their
coffee and they fight with their computers. I have
no problem keeping my mind on the task at hand.
No clouds.
All these people are talented but they also are
JUST PEOPLE! They do laundry, they drink their
coffee and they fight with their computers. I have
no problem keeping my mind on the task at hand.
No clouds.
Pepper: Is there anything that you can tell us about when "Wild Michigan" and
"Crossing the King's Highway" will be scheduled to be made?
"Crossing the King's Highway" will be scheduled to be made?
DJ: I just talked with Ray (Producer "King's
Highway") and we are close but no set start date.
Dick Van Patten and I talked about it at the Oscars
and I do think it will launch... when it is time. We
are still aiming to roll cameras in New Mexico on
"Wild Michigan" in Oct. 06
Highway") and we are close but no set start date.
Dick Van Patten and I talked about it at the Oscars
and I do think it will launch... when it is time. We
are still aiming to roll cameras in New Mexico on
"Wild Michigan" in Oct. 06
Pepper: I want to thank you for chatting with me during a very busy time for you.
Maybe we can see a few more updates to your journal in the future?
Maybe we can see a few more updates to your journal in the future?
DJ: I would like that. Thank you
Pepper: How did he move, react to certain events, especially
when the verdict was finally handed down?
when the verdict was finally handed down?
Pepper: According to your biography, you have been in the movie business approximately ten years. As your
webmaster I have been following your career for only the past two and a half years. Can you tell me what we have
missed from some of your earlier movies? (samples: "In The Woods", "The Flock", "The Nest", "Outlaw Prophet")
There are other movies I do wish to pick out and chat with you about.
webmaster I have been following your career for only the past two and a half years. Can you tell me what we have
missed from some of your earlier movies? (samples: "In The Woods", "The Flock", "The Nest", "Outlaw Prophet")
There are other movies I do wish to pick out and chat with you about.